Tobias Teichen is a pastor at ICF Munich. The International Christian Fellowship is an interdenominational church. In this interview, he explains why he enjoys exchanging ideas with rabbis and how Iranian refugees in his congregation came to introduce German Christians to the topic of Israel. He also talks about his annual meeting with God in Israel. The questions were asked by Dina Röll, head of the Young Christians Standing with Israel (JCSI).
Dina Röll: You say that Israel isn't just a one-off Sunday sermon topic for you, but influences all your sermons. What do you mean by that?
Tobias Teichen: Israel isn't just a country or a topic, but a mindset: How do you view the first part of the Bible, the second part, how do you view the Hebrew roots? For me, Israel isn't just a topic for one Sunday a year, but God's history of salvation. It all began with Abraham: Abraham, who according to the scriptures had previously worshipped idols, encounters the God who later calls himself the God of Israel. He receives a vision from God, and then the story begins. Everything that happens afterward is either viewed through this lens—or one thinks that the Old Testament is no longer important.
For me, God is a God of history. And he writes a history with his people, into which we are grafted. That's why it influences everything: how I preach, how I understand the Bible. I don't omit anything; on the contrary: when I meet rabbis, for example, and ask them questions about the first part of the Bible, that's when I discover the most. For them, it's not the first part, but the only part of the Bible. And from the way a rabbi reads the Bible, I can often learn more than from many Christian theologians who either have a replacement theology or a theology where the first part of the Bible no longer counts. That's why I would say: this theology is present in every one of my sermons, without me even mentioning the word Israel.
What did you preach before you had this revelation about Israel?
One can preach, but one tends to remain within the framework of replacement theology: The idea is that Israel was the plan in the Old Testament. And the church took Israel's place because Israel failed. Therefore, God eventually said, "Now we will build the church and no longer make covenants with Israel." Few express this classic replacement theology explicitly, but ultimately, that's how it's preached. I was very frustrated by my own sermons and also by many German-speaking theologians I knew at the time.
I met Jesus when I was 19 and read the entire Bible three times in a row. Even then, I thought, if we cut out two-thirds and say, "This is the God of the Old Testament and this is the God of the New Testament"—that can't be right. Because it says, "God does not change." But if I believe that God gives Israel an everlasting covenant and then breaks it because Israel has failed—why should I believe that he keeps the covenant of baptism with me if I keep failing? It all seemed illogical to me.
You can still preach about Jesus, but then you're very hesitant about the Old Testament. I had a thousand questions and I said to God, "God, I'd like to meet a rabbi." And then God simply sent me a Messianic Jew to a church service. We met and he started explaining things about the first part of the Bible to me for three days straight.
Three days! That sounds unbelievable! How did your community react to this change?
Once a year, we have a Roots Sunday – a Sunday where we talk about biblical roots. Initially, this triggered a lot of reactions because antisemitism and certain stereotypes about Jews are ingrained in all of us. At least in German-speaking countries, this runs much deeper than one might think. This is a trigger, and that's why it occasionally stirred strong emotions. However, most people were fascinated and felt relieved because they suddenly realized that everything made more sense. By the end of the day, they loved the Word of God and God himself more deeply. The teachings and sermons are much deeper, broader, and more profound. And God's transformative power is much stronger.
A few years ago, we had a time when many people fled from Iran, came to know Jesus, and discovered the role of Israel in our church—which was quite something! In Iran, people grow up hating Israel. Here, they fell to their knees, turned around, and received a love for Israel that is simply inexplicable. These Iranians said they wanted to help the people in our church understand this, too. How bizarre—former Muslims who had come to know Jesus and their Jewish roots wanted to help the church learn about Jewish holidays. And so they prepared a Passover celebration in our church. When the caterer arrived, he asked what kind of event it was. The answer was something like, "We were Muslims, now we're Christians, and we're celebrating a Jewish holiday." He said he had to go to that church sometime—because it seemed so humanly impossible.
Have you been celebrating the biblical festivals since then?
Occasionally. In my opinion, every biblical festival points to Jesus, and in each one you can recognize what Jesus actually came for, what he died for, and what he offers me. That's why every festival I engage with is a great gift. It's a timeless ritual that can help me not only to connect with God but also to realign things in my life with him. That's why it's important to us to regularly explain the Jewish Passover to people before Easter. We offer instructions for celebrating Passover via YouTube videos. This allows anyone to celebrate with family or friends at any time. We always say that a beginner's version is necessary. Later, you can delve deeper.
Do you still celebrate Christmas and the other Christian holidays?
We still celebrate them, and for me, there's no contradiction. In our culture, I see it as an opportunity to reach as many people as possible at Christmas and Easter who wouldn't come if I invited them to a Jewish holiday. I believe that Jewish holidays help someone who already knows Jesus to delve deeper. The other holidays are occasions to invite those who don't yet know Jesus to church. I think the most important thing is to celebrate a vibrant holiday where children encounter God and aren't bombarded with gifts.
So, you don't give gifts?
There are gifts, but they are clearly within the context of the celebration, and we are celebrating Jesus the whole time. We have developed rituals: For example, we share what we are thankful to Jesus for and what we want to give him in the coming year. Everyone at the table shares their thoughts. Or, when the child was younger, there was a birthday cake for Jesus. We always give each other gifts with the symbolism of our joy that Jesus was born. And that's why we celebrate it so generously, because God blesses us generously. But we don't overdo it with the gifts.
We talked about how we can benefit from our knowledge of Israel. How do you, as a church or in your family, bless Israel?
As a church, we give according to the motto: "What is important to God is important to us." We give away more than ten percent of our budget. Of that, five percent goes toward church plants so that people can come to know Jesus, and five percent goes to Israel. Furthermore, we bless Israel and the entire region by regularly visiting and asking the question: "What has God entrusted to us, and how can this benefit the region?" We find it difficult when churches go there and act as if they know better and impose their own culture.
Once, as a Christian group, we met two rabbis in Israel and simply asked them questions. They seemed restless and then asked if we had anything else to say. When we asked them, they replied, "You're the first Christian group that actually listens. Everyone else just wants to tell us their message about Jesus." I can learn at least as much from the Jewish perspective as I can give. Of course, I firmly believe that Jesus is the most important thing, but I can learn a great deal about my own roots by listening. Just blurting out the cross without knowing the other person or their culture—that's something I shouldn't do anywhere.
Would you say that Israel is as important and natural a topic for your congregation members as it is for you?
This is a cultural process. In a growing church, you can never really pinpoint it precisely, since new people are constantly coming to faith. But for those who have been around longer, it definitely becomes an important topic. And we also hold camps in Israel every year, which we want to expand further. What is your church's motto regarding Israel? We want to discover our Hebrew roots in a healthy way. Because without them, we will never discover the full power of faith.
You used to be a teacher at a secondary school. Did you encounter antisemitism during that time?
Unfortunately, I encounter antisemitism constantly. In the middle school I attended, in the big city, in the inner-city schools where I was, there are many children with a migration background, often of the Muslim faith. But they don't even have to be Muslim. It starts when a goal is scored in soccer that seems a bit odd or cheated; then it's called the "Jewish goal." Many people have prejudices and harbor hatred towards Jews without ever having met one. You feel it everywhere through comments and remarks.
Especially when something political happens in the West Bank or Gaza, things really get heated. That's why I once invited some of my students out to dinner. We went to a Jewish restaurant. I didn't tell them that beforehand. They really enjoyed the food, and everyone was very friendly. When I told them afterward that we'd been to a Jewish restaurant, they were shocked that Jews could be so kind. So, it's largely about education.
You visit Israel once a year to seek God's will and meet people. Where do you travel in Israel? Do you travel alone or with others?
I usually travel with my family and key church leaders in varying combinations. I don't do typical tours like you often do with travel groups. I'm not particularly interested in ancient stones, but rather in living stones: I want to meet people. A few years ago, I had the feeling that God wanted me to travel to Israel once a year; that He wanted to have an appointment with me there and show me something. I travel to Israel with this attitude. I say, "God, you can show me things now, give me thoughts, give me impulses, whatever it may be." Beforehand, I pray, "Who should I meet?" I have a few friends who are very well-connected, and I ask them beforehand. That's how I get to know many new people.
Is there a famous person in Israel with whom you would like to have a coffee?
I believe it's with the current military chief. I'd be interested to know his thoughts and motivations, why, how, and when he acts. I find it all very difficult. How do you fight against a terrorist adversary? What is proportionate, and what isn't? I have tanks, I have aircraft, I have the most modern technology, but I'm facing someone who couldn't care less about human life. How do I prevent the people in my army from going berserk?
Finally, a completely different question: You say about yourself: "I'm not primarily here to preach, but to train leaders." What advice would you give to particularly young leaders?
I think that young people often have big goals. That's great, but sometimes they underestimate the fact that it takes small steps to reach them. According to Matthew 28, I understand our fundamental mission to be helping others grow in faith and become followers of Jesus. The first step of leadership, therefore, is helping others grow in faith. I can pray, "God, show me someone I can help grow in faith. Show me how to do that." And then God will give me opportunities.
If I am faithful in small things, God entrusts me with much, which is why I would always have a grand vision. One eye is already looking to the future, the other eye, almost squinting, is looking at what God lays before me. And there I am faithful. This tension is what leads me furthest: If I only look to the future, I don't move forward, and if I only look at what's right in front of me, I don't move forward either. That's why it's important to have big dreams that bring me to my knees to pray, to take small steps in everyday life, and simply to try things out.
Thank you so much for the conversation!
This article first appeared in our newspaper "Israelaktuell," issue 133. You can order the newspaper free of charge here. We would also be happy to send you several copies for distribution.
